I'm Kelly and I'm here in the VA Test Kitchen to have a super secret conversation about Chris Morocco once again we're putting Chris's super taster abilities to the test this is a Juicy Lucy cheeseburger I'm challenging Chris to recreate this dish with every ingredient in just one day he'll be able to taste it touch it and smell it but at.

No point will he be able to see the dish at the end of the day we'll come back to see his final creation and I'll be the judge something like real fleeting and faint sort of like a roasted potato smell okay it's a smaller plate got a bun seems like a Toasted Bun no discernible sauce although there is a little.

Something like bright little like pickly Tangy okay it's like Halloween fun house of textures here we got a ring of something probably onion but caramelized onion but pretty generously seasoned like salt and pepper the onions have a pretty generous amount of fat on them too normally you wouldn't really.

Caramelize onions in butter because butter would have a tendency to burn before the onions would fully caramelize and there is this richness I don't know it could be like olive oil kind of interacting with the onion and the sweetness in a certain way but it it kind of tastes buttery I.

Feel like I've like already like fondled a lot of burgers on this show whatever Cory I'll fondle another burger for you it's a lot of texture on this Patty when you sort of Squish it it's like slightly hollow inside it's also cupped like it cooked first on this side really hard and got a lot of texture but then it also then when it went to.

Flip it kind of cupped all right so I'm going to tear this open it's like literally cheese or something everywhere some kind of very easy melting you know kind of pasteurized American style cheese product so the construction of this thing is is part of what's so.

Interesting right it's like you've got two very thin burger patties that's then kind of laminated with a layer of cheese inside and it stayed like perfectly encased in there got a pretty thin wavy sliced bread and butter pickle wow no sauce that's like a power move I'm wondering if I've like missed something it feels very.

Simple a burger with the cheese inside of it is a Juicy Lucy right something kind of Midwestern Kelly's like very Minnesota why Kelly and why now there's like not enough things in this burger you know what I mean like that's what's like kind of terrifying it's like a power move of a dish.

All right so I need middle of the road buns it's just like regular regular hamburger bun I'm going to start with 20 ground chuck pickles the onion maybe we'll try regular and sweet onion then for cheese Velveeta and Kraft American all right somebody's gonna go shop for this and then I will have my first shot at the.

Dish and I guess we'll just see how it goes foreign I've got three bun options I feel like a King's Hawaiian Roll is going to be too sweet this is like very much a potato bun this looks like very classic white this would be the one that I lead with it's just right down the middle how do.

You get a square cheese inside a round Patty though like that's maybe the million dollar question here growing up like we never had this at home like never I feel like I had to submit a written report to my parents like in high school about why I should even be allowed to have like Annie's shells and cheddar when tasting the beef I felt.

Like you know it was something in the range of like a 20 Chuck broadly speaking ground sirloin is going to tend to be more like 90 to 93 percent lean ten to seven percent fat whereas Chuck is gonna hover around more like 20 fat I want to keep track of what I'm doing in terms of like really specific weights of each layer of meat so we can can kind of.

Reverse engineer it if you will to see what the optimal kind of weight of each side of the Patty is going to be the total weight of the meat is going to be six ounces three ounces per side I do want it to start out as a fairly regular ball so that when we press it it kind of sort of squishes out to a pretty even Circle how big do we think we need to go.

Maybe a bit bigger than that right all right so that's a generous five inches do we think it's a problem that it's going in as a square should I tuck in the corners to trim it I feel like you got to do something right I want to get like a pretty good.

Adhesion between these layers so hopefully the cheese is fully encased maybe we'll go five ounces total for the next one although we do need to kind of do a little bit more shaping so pressing both sides together working the edges together a little bit making a little meat hand pie five inch Patty three quarters of an ounce of cheese here four.

And a half inch Patty three quarters of an ounce cheese as well here and I'm gonna chill this because I really fear for my ability to remove it from the parchment without shredding it apart so these paler onions are sweet onions and then the darker onion is yellow or Spanish onion so I'm going to make caramelized onions with.

Both and then we're going to compare Spanish is going to be a little sharper more pungent sweeter literally is sweeter it's a little bit more pleasant to eat raw caramelized onions would tend to be made more I think with a yellow or Spanish onion you know you're still able to kind of like generate a lot of Sweetness in the cooking process even.

With a more pungent onion this is sweet on the left for this application I specifically cut the onion into rings because I got some rings of onion in those caramelized onions so I'm just going to season these with a little bit of salt just to get them starting to break down a little bit caramelized onion is all about getting even Browning.

On a soft textured onion rushing the process is not going to help us here we really want to wilt the onion we want to steam out all of that excess liquid that's giving it that structure right that rigid onion shape and feel to it and we want to just kind of like neutralize that right and a little cover in the beginning stage just to kind of.

Get the onion to start to soften the steam out can really help those are the sweet onions those are just about there and then these are the Spanish onions I'm just gonna kind of deglaze one more time with just a splash of water just to pick up where the fond is making the onion stick to the bottom of the skillet there that's going to create the.

Most even color possible on the onions colors looking good Heat's coming off I know we needed some salt for sure little black pepper I feel like the Spanish onion just retained like a little bit more vibrancy to it also like the texture is a little bit more present the yellow onion just overall just like performed a little bit.

Better here I think it is time to talk pickles red and butter pickles let's pull one out ooh I like it machine cut Perfection real talk for a quick sec I don't think the bun was griddled because if you're gonna griddle a bun you're gonna put fat on it and I don't think there was any extra fat on.

The bun I'm gonna go toast a bun so the burger patties have been chilling in the fridge for the last 45 minutes or so just to firm them up so this is neutral oil for cooking the burgers I think anything would work but I imagine like where this burger comes from it's being cooked on a griddle or a flat top not grilled so I'm salting the larger Patty.

And now salting the smaller Patty just want to make sure we've got good contact here and pepper see how the two sides of the meat on this smaller one are kind of pulling away from each other I don't love that size wise the six ounce the way that it's shrinking feels a little bit better.

To me but I don't know maybe it's just luck of the draw that this one's opening up a little bit on one side we're starting to lose a little bit of cheese we're starting to get pink juices coming out of this guy I think we're probably just about there let's go and Assemble this was toasted in a toaster just to kind of refresh the.

Bread a little bit but it was not griddled meaning you know this was not toasted on the cooking surface I did not discern any fat on the bun itself and if you're gonna griddle something you're going to introduce fat or you're just a monster pickles this is the six ouncer this is the five ouncer onions.

A condimentless top bun so we're gonna lead with the six ounce Patty this is my first attempt feeling okay about it it is a thicker burger like I don't know how much thinner I could go from a starting point in the next tasting I really need to pay more attention to the relationship of the size of the burger to the size of the.

Bun also want to pay close attention to the edge of the burger which in the original maybe felt thinner I am pretty happy with the cook on the meat I have to say like that was around three generous minutes per side and I like seeing a little streak of pink in there that feels really gratifying to me ingredient wise.

Overall I feel pretty okay so I'd say 80. technique she's encased in a Patty griddled dry Toasted Bun caramelized onions again maybe I'd go with another 80 for technique appearance maybe there I would go with a 90. taste feels pretty damn close I mean I would go with like an 85 on this piece.

Of paper are the scores I just gave myself in addition to my actual scores whoa that's lunch let's just go home and have a real nice rest of the day I never dared a dream you know to achieve these Heights ingredients actually a 90. technique actually a 90. appearance 98 when has that ever happened never taste 90. this is a good place to be I'm gonna.

Taste the original dish again see what I can tweak here but very deeply comforting to know that at the very least I can come right back in with exactly the same thing that I put up just a moment ago and still be in a good place all right okay now I get Burger all right so I was.

Like okay first up assess the bun coated with fat griddled toasted what do we got here but it's like already it's like oh actually I don't know it's like the top of it feels like it was toasted as well like you're just not gonna get that from a griddled bun there's maybe like a touch of sweetness to the bun maybe this is a little squishier than I thought.

We're gonna try the potato bun a potato roll is not a big bun right but we've got some overhang here you've got this Edge that's like a good bit thinner than mine was it's just not super big call me crazy I feel like I'm sticking with yellow onion I feel like I get just the littlest bit.

Of like onion you know kind of like poking through I feel like they're fattier than mine fattier and softer could it be that these need to be finished with like a little bit of butter or something and I know we talked about that I don't think I'd start with butter maybe we would finish with a little bit.

Of butter maybe I feel good with my American I want to change up the bun I need to take the caramelized onions a little bit farther maybe finish with like a touch of butter all right I think we can wrap this up let's taste some buns King's Hawaiian.

Wine bun is like the texture of a potato bun but without the potato and it's sweeter I don't think this is right also the size feels wrong to me this is a potato bun classic a slight bit more like richness of flavor you know where it's not like it's brioche but it's not just like straight up white bread either.

And then you have just like the straight ahead right down the middle white bread I'm gonna go ahead and choose the potato bun for round two it feels right to me it's got a little bit of flavor going on it's a nice size why don't we assemble our Burger patties making some meat patties we're going with five ounces of meat I did six.

Ounces and five ounces last time so we're going with a slightly smaller one how do you think they fold the cheese in Minneapolis or whatever one for Kelly one for me one for Mike what's funny about tasting the original burger and feeling a little bit more of like an organic shape to it is that I don't like I don't know how to do this.

Without being like kind of precise about it right to like put the two halves together in a way that makes it feel like they're actually gonna stay closed during the cooking process I don't want to just treat it to you casually and then just have it like open up or just kind of Squish out in some way so I'm just sort of like struggling with.

Just like how to how to care less I guess you know and then we're gonna do more onions so we're sticking with the yellow onion um same basic technique as before but questioning whether we should be finishing with like a little bit of butter or something just a little extra richness I don't know I can't decide if.

That's the right move or not the beginning of the process is going to be much like we did the first time around it's like initial kind of cover let them start to Brown sweat down lose their rigidity and then just deglaze as necessary with a little bit of water we're gonna finish with a little butter because why the hell not.

If you're gonna be wrong be wrong in a delicious way you know in the original dish I just got this like real sensation of slipperiness of fattiness just like this mouth filling complexity say it with butter you know I don't know that I feel great about adding the butter let me be clear but I'm looking to add some fat the end of the cooking process would.

Be the time to add butter I'm okay with being a little bit wrong it's just something about like the flavor I don't know I think I might just be overthinking it I have a tendency to overthink for sure I'm gonna go on to The Griddle we're gonna make it happen final push so I got a little bit of pepper and I'm.

Gonna do salt neutral oil and we're really gonna flatten this the burger I tasted in the original dish was slightly irregular and I'm just trying to account for how you sort of form the Patty in a little bit more organic way or manipulate it on the cooking surface so that it just like has a little bit less of a regular shape.

That makes sense flame broiled okay dry toasted the Buns not griddled no introduction of fat griddling does not feel right here to me made one for me one for Kelly the judge and one for Mike all right yeah we're here this is my second shot at the dish and I feel good.

About it I want to hope that I got the bun right that would be a small victory the butter I don't know I don't know it just felt right at the time it's feeling like less right as time goes on but that's okay so ingredients if my actual was a 90 before maybe I'll stay at a 90. just allowing for the fact that hopefully the bun was right even if the.

Butter is wrong technique so nothing really substantively changed but maybe I'm gonna stay I'm gonna stay at 90. appearance hopefully didn't get worse maybe I'll just go with a 95. I'll stay with a 90 for taste right or wrong I think it's time to bring in Kelly and find out how I actually did Holly how's it going good what do you.

Think's under here I think this is a Juicy Lucy AKA a cheese filled Burger yeah and I feel like a Juicy Lucy comes from a specific place where I was gonna guess Minnesota because of your presence here I figured they brought in like a specialist but a valid guess I don't know okay Chris may I present to you the Juicy Lucy.

Cheeseburger voila so it's not the potato bun huh no it's not I cringed a little bit when I noticed that you ended up I walked it back there's so many different places that make a very famous Juicy Lucy version exactly so this is probably the most similar to Matt's Bar they claim to have created the first one is Matt and his bar so Matt's Bar is.

Located in downtown Minneapolis knew it yeah I knew it hence why I'm here yeah there was an ingredient that you missed yeah in the onion a little bit of sugar hey it's an ingredient that you missed you know I don't I didn't write the recipe but I mean that is like a common component in caramelized onions to bring.

Out the sweetness and the onion begs to disagree well perhaps but this is a Minnesota bar food you know the onion mixture starts off being cooked in butter salt pepper then the sugar no olive oil which I know you did use a little bit of oil if I can just like manhandle this I didn't get like okay is that like toasted on The.

Griddle so it's just toasted on The Griddle after everything else is done your Burger's been removed it's ready for a second it hasn't really picked up any fat or anything oh slightly it's expected that there's a little bit of residual oil left over but the recipe does not have you out anymore like oil and fat so yeah that's probably the idea.

Honestly when I saw that you put in the toaster I was like well that's what I was I mean I said no I said it was like I don't know what kind of workflow this is it feels like you would toast it on the griddle so let's really like look at the difference between the two they look very similar should we taste original first sure Cheers Cheers.

Here's mine man that potato bun is just really uh screaming potato bun to me the first thing that I notice is the bun I mean probably not very surprising to hear Chris like I mean how many ounces of meat in the original six so it's a pound and a half and you split it into eight portions and then.

You flatten it with your hands how did you decide to flatten it I flattened it with like a grill press between parchment so when you have your first Patty down you put the cheese in and you fold over the sides of the cheese like Corners yes you fold them in is that what you did everybody knows that yeah oh you didn't try to use like I don't.

Know Cube cheese or something I thought about it but it just felt like you needed something that was like flat and that left you a nude border from great adhesion so for ingredients you gave yourself a 90 yeah and I'm going to agree with that I think that you deserve a 90. okay so for technique you gave yourself a 90. I decided to bring you up.

Just a little bit to 92. okay I think that your Technique you know across the board was nearly on toaster the toaster really threw me the toaster is like really gotten under your skin yeah so for appearance you gave yourself 95. and I agreed with you I think that it was nearly perfect bun and then taste you gave yourself a 90 and I'm gonna give.

You a 95 and that would bring your total to oh 93. almost broken almost like a territory a minus oh my gosh so great oh my gosh did it good job congratulations honestly represented Minnesota well oh thank you well I hope that one day you'll go to Minneapolis and you'll sit at the bar at Matt's and you'll have a Juicy Lucy and you'll.

Think about this show This Moment In This Moment yeah it took me a while to get to this point I'm certainly not gonna uh get overconfident about it I'd like to think I'm getting better but I don't know we'll see we'll see there's always the next one take the a thank you